This is a repost from the old Advisory Board:
Hey guys - I need some feedback, but first some info:
Deadline 5.1 beta is spooling up soon. let me know if you are interested in participating - this will focus on pipeline integration with shotgun, using Draft for slap comps/templates etc. Additionally, we are likely going to start an alpha/beta for XMesh in the very near future. this is our mesh-caching toolkit with allll sorts of possibilities.
So feedback - i’m going to need feedback on pricing for XMesh: clearly you will need to know what it does, so once i know if you are interested and have time, i’ll ensure you get on the beta. but the essence is that it is a mesh caching tool as follows [this is internal information only, not all features may be supported in a 1.0 release, we reserve all rights to ensure the software does nothing but link to lolcatz episodes etc etc]
XMesh
Stores compressed snapshots of geometry at time intervals in a non-procedural manner.
XMesh File format:
• Per-frame XML file (.xmesh) that points to separate gzipped data file (with XML metadata stored directly in the file) (.xmdata) for each “channel”.
• The mesh geometry is stored as a vertex list, and a face list with 3 (or more for polygons) indexes per face into the vertex list
• 3 different additional channel types:
o Per-vertex (1 data item per mesh vertex ie. Vertex Colors)
o Per-face (1 data item per mesh face ie. Material ID)
o Custom Mapping (1 custom face per mesh face, indexing an unbounded array of custom data ie. Texture Coordinates)
• An XMesh sequence is only required to store geometry vertices and faces. It may also reference an unbounded number of custom channels.
• Can compress data further on a per-channel by making multiple .xmesh files (ie. frames) reference the same .xmdata files if that data is not changing (ie. Texture Coordinates not animated).
XMesh Plugins for 3dsMax:
• XMeshLoader for loading sequences (or single files), including retiming the playback of meshes. Several time interpolation schemes for sub-frame data (Velocity offset, frame interpolation, etc.)
o Can use renderer motion blur information to choose appropriate sub-frame times for topology changes.
• XMeshAnimCache modifier for loading sequences of cached vertex motion and applying it to an existing 3dsMax object.
• XMeshSaverUtils a MaxScript interface for saving snapshots of geometry to sequences of files.
• Supported 3dsMax data (when saving):
o Basic mesh data (Vertices + Faces, supporting polygonal data)
o Velocity (As long as a 1 tick (minimum) interval with consistent topology can be found)
o Vertex Color
o Texture Coordinates (Map channels 1 through 100)
o Selection Weights (per vertex)
o Explicit Normals (questionable)
o Material ID
o Smoothing Group (integer mask)
XMesh Plugins for Maya, Softimate, Nuke will have similar features.
let me know!
also- i have another question about Deadline. Do you think there would be any commercial interest in a version of Deadline that is locked to a single application or platform? say - an Aftereffects only version, or a Cinema4D only? My idea is that we can get people to adopt deadline from the free/cheap/included solutions by offering a single LOCKED version of deadline that doesnt support custom scripts, and only one application of chocie. the cheap version would be rentable per month, or a flat yearly fee. Think that might be attractive if you were only using, say, Max and no compositing? or Fusion only house?
we would include all the usage features of deadline, and of course the ability to upgrade to the full version with a few mouseclicks and a credit card and download…
it wouldnt be compatible with deadline full version per se, so you couldnt have 50 nuke deadline and 50 maya deadline on the same farm, but you could, theoretically have them on different farms i suppose…
anyway, just another idea. thats why i ask you here!
cheers
cb
May 26, 2011 | Thinkbox Software
The timeout is here is too short. You can get logged out if you type too slow and you lose your post. So here’s try #2:
XMesh:
-
Will a spec or library be available so we can make other plugins, like for Fusion, Unity, Houdini, etc? It’s worked out well for Krakatoa .prt and PointCache .pc2. It’s unlikely someone would undercut you and make a $5 3ds max plugin, but maybe you could add specific restrictions to the license terms?
-
Will there be separate Reader and Writer plugins? Maybe with the reader costing $n and the writer costing $n*10? So if we need to send a client or renderfarm a file, they can read it without having to invest in a full kit?
-
Are the plugins sold separately? So we buy 3ds max, and someone else buys Maya, and we can send each other files, but we don’t have to pay for an unused Maya plugin and they don’t have to pay for an unused 3ds max plugin?
-
Is per-object data stored in the .xmesh, like transforms and such? So if we don’t have vertex varying data, but just node transforms, we could use this as a replacement for FBX or similar?
Deadline:
-
Beyond the pricing, it makes a better pitch. If I am a potential customer and I use ONLY 3ds max and AfterEffects, I might think “Will Thinkbox understand my unique needs, or are they too busy supporting XSI and Nuke?” Having a stripped down version affirms your commitment to my needs.
-
Would you offer ala carte pricing? So I could start with 3ds max, and if I like it, add AE, and if I like it add FFMpeg, etc. Maybe beyond 3 or 4 applications it stops making financial sense, and I just upgrade to the full version, but at least I wouldn’t be stuck with a farm that’s half 3ds max only and half AE only. I’d miss out on the opportunity to see how DL handles multiple job types (which it the largest benefit over the included solutions anyway).
Draft:
- What’s Draft? Google fails here.
May 26, 2011 | Chad Capeland
If you made the choice of apps in Deadline “light” something along the lines of pick 1 x 3D app, 1 x 2D app and have some general, basic, always included apps such as QuickTime generation, then this might work at the right price. Restricting by platform probably isn’t the way to go.
M
May 30, 2011 | Mike Owen
DEADLINE SX: the plan bounced around is 1 app - but very cheap. anything else, buy the full siite. so it could be for an after-effects only shop, for example. pricing would be like 25-45 per year, or a monthly fee per node. 5 per month per node? im just thinking about it…
we could support 2 apps, but then i feel like that might really undercut our main tool. perhaps that fear is foolishness?
Draft is our templating app [chad]
X-mesh /alpha is opening up.i think you will be invited shortly, chad [not sure you are interested, mike?]
our feeling is reading is free, saving is a cost. we will confirm that before release, as it could change i suppose.
i’m just not sure if writing is free for every app or just ‘one’ or what. i think initially we would sell max, then release the maya one in short order. with nuke and soft following behind with houdini in the mix somewhere.
thanks for the feedback!
June 1, 2011 | Thinkbox Software
Deadline for one app isn’t impressive. For many applications it would actually have less utility. Like Backburner already supports multiple apps, and Eyeon’s render manager supports clustering and network cachng.
For XMesh, selling savers ala carte makes sense. If you had Frost for Maya you’d charge separately for it, right? Same logic. Maybe use total license count when calculating volume discounts. But will the spec be available? For some of the hosts we would want we’d be waiting a long time unless we made our own.
June 1, 2011 | Chad Capeland